Lisa Ross-Marcus Career Transitions for Women Entrepreneurs Over 50: From Arts to Coaching

Nigel Rawlins: Welcome, Lisa. Could you introduce yourself and tell us where you're from and tell us some of the things you do? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 0:36

Sure. Thank you. And thank you for having me, Nigel. I am an executive coach. I do a lot of coaching around leadership with a special focus on female leadership. Right now involved in designing a program that I'm going to be facilitating for 180 women in STEM. And I'm very excited about that. For anyone who might not be familiar with the term STEM, that means science, technology, engineering, and math. Which is a field that is presently dominated by men. So there's a lot of exploration to do for empowering women in that field. I do one on one coaching for the rest with women and men. There are certain questions that can come up around leadership, certainly in organizations around assertiveness, around self promotion, around power and the positive side of power, as well as really sharing a vision of your ambitions and what you want, as opposed to sometimes just offering it as, Oh, if you're interested, let me know. So these are some of the kinds of questions that I explore with my clients. I also work with female entrepreneurs and female startup founders to help them tell their compelling story in order to attract funding, venture capital, sponsors, or customers. I'm very much believer in really getting to the core of what makes what you are creating special and unique and why it's very, important.

Nigel Rawlins: Wow, that sounds fantastic. So let's go back a little bit. Yeah, you're based in Amsterdam So and yet I can hear an accent there. So tell me something about how that came about. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 2:15

Yes, my accent is an American accent, I'm originally from New York. I was born and raised there. I went to college in the cornfields of Ohio and at the end of my junior year, I was offered a very amazing opportunity. I was a dance major, and my dance professors said to me and a couple of other students, hey, we want to get out of here. And we're going to Paris, and we're going to start a dance company. Would you like to come? And that was for me, yes, the most amazing dream scenario I could think of for a 20 year old. I've never been to Europe. I've never been out of the states. I always dreamed of going to Paris, and I was being offered this opportunity to actually follow my dream to be a professional dancer in this fantastic city. So I ended up going for what was supposed to be a year abroad, my senior year of college, and I never came back. I spent five years in Paris living the artist's life and actually learning a tremendous amount about how to create dance and theater productions, the craft of creating a production, the organization, the practical side of creating a production. And very much in the mindset of bootstrapping being a foreigner. And after five years there, I decided it was time for me to spread my wings. And I had spent a lot of time in the Netherlands touring. I had a relationship with a Dutch man at the time. And I saw there was an incredibly fertile performing arts scene here in the Netherlands. So I picked up and moved here, and started from nothing, networked my way through things, I didn't even know that word at the time, but looking back, that's what I was doing. And I ended up having a fantastic career here, which lasted almost 14, 15 years. Created 20 original productions, toured them all over Europe. It was actually my first, opportunity for international working experience because I work with people of all different nationalities and showed my work all over Europe, including Russia. There came a time as it does for most dancers to realize, okay, I need to pivot. I can't do this forever. And that was a very challenging transition time for me because I suddenly realized I was in a country where I did not grow up. And I had no family, I had no support system here. And once my profession was changing, that was my home and my tribe I was really on my own. And so I slowly got myself into the real world, as I call it, also by, and again I will use the word networking, although at the time I didn't understand what that was, but basically it was letting people know that I was struggling. I was trying to find my way and ultimately coming in contact with somebody who gave me a chance. On this topic of transferring skills from one profession to another, especially when you come from the arts, any kind of artistic background, I want to share a transition that I made that was actually unexpected and surprising. There was a certain point I had stopped my dance career, I had done a few other jobs just in the interim to get my feet on the ground, office jobs and I was getting married, and I was pregnant at the time, so I wasn't working, and I noticed that it was really a lot of work to organize a wedding, and I was wondering, aren't there any wedding planners in this country? So we're talking about the Netherlands in the late 1990s. very end of the century around the millennium and so the first thing that triggered me was noticing a need in the market that I had, that wasn't there, the second thing that I noticed was that the process of organizing a wedding was very similar to mounting a theater production, which I had many years of experience in with my dance and theater career. So you have a certain stage, a certain setting, there's a certain decor, there's costumes, there's music, there's the publicity, which is the invitations that have to go out. There's different players who have different roles, and there's a certain choreography that is involved in rolling out the whole ceremony and celebration. And suddenly I just thought, I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be a wedding planner. So I started one of the first wedding planning companies in the Netherlands. And the first year I worked with a partner, after that, I carried on solo and I basically learned as I went along. I had actually maybe been to three weddings in my life until that point, and they were all quite in the distant past. So I just set about trying to figure out, okay what are the different kinds of weddings that takes place? I even snuck into a church once to just observe a very traditional church wedding. I started visiting all different kinds of locations, making contacts with the people who ran them. And of course they were happy to see me because I was a gateway to getting clients for them. I also discovered my niche market quite accidentally. Because yes, as I said, it's a lot of work and I was thinking this must be really hard for people who are working and who it's really hard for are expats because they don't speak the language. They don't really know their way around the country so well because they've just come here for a job. They tend to have higher than average budgets, for their weddings. And so that became my niche market. And the thing that was wonderful about it is that it was very creative because I was often dealing with different cultures that were pairing up. So my first client was an American Jewish bride with a Buddhist Mongolian groom. So we made a very creative ceremony using elements of both cultures. I then worked with Czechoslovakian American couple, with Kuwaiti Russian couple with some Dutch couples. But it turned out to be a very creative, and after a while, profitable business, I doubled my earnings every year. After five years for different reasons, I realized I was not the right person to be running this company, but I also felt, hey, I don't want to just turn out the light and walk away. So I made a decision, which I felt really proud of is that I, I hired a business consultant who helped me to package the company to sell it. And I found a number of interested parties and ended up selling the company so that it actually went on for another 15 years or so. And I think this is already something that's really important to share with women who are thinking about breaking away from something they've been doing for a long time and starting out on a new career path, that it's so important to let as many people know as you can, because you never know who might open a door for you.

Nigel Rawlins: What's fascinating is you've got an arts background in the performing arts. It's quite surprising how the performing arts can give you a foundation for what you're doing. Do you think about what that performing arts has given you today that's helped you ? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 10:23

I think a few things, one of them is the need to put yourself out there, to be in the public eye, and even to the extent that you're being written about in the newspaper, and so it's not only the people who come to your performance, but you're being talked about, and in those days it was the newspaper, now of course there's a lot on social media as well. and therefore you need to develop a thick skin. You need to know what you stand for and what you believe in because there's going to be people who really love what you do and are really inspired by it. And there's going to be people who don't like it and are going to be vocal about that as well. And certainly that's going on in social media. So that's one thing. The second thing is the ability to improvise. So to make do with limited resources, because yeah, the performing arts are traditionally not a field where high earnings are one of the characteristics. So you learn to improvise, you learn to bootstrap. You also learn to take risks when you're a creative person and you come with an idea that nobody else has come with before. You need to have the courage to share it. And that is, again, something that parallels with women entrepreneurs now, or startups, knowing that You are taking a risk with putting yourself out there, sharing your vision, your ideas. But the rewards can be really phenomenal. I do want to say, and I think this is also something to share with women who are considering launching a new business on their own. I certainly made some mistakes in judging my own capacities. I launched this business when I was a new mother, a first time mom. I was doing some other kind of work on the side to create financial stability. And I basically overloaded myself and. Looking back, I think it's important to understand as much as you want to get your business off the ground and there are certainly stereotypical ideas that if you're running your own business, you've got to be available 24/ 7 and you've got to just work really hard. You've also got to really understand what is sustainable for you because you don't want to burn yourself out. Because you're no good for yourself. You're no good for your family, your friends, and you're no good for your clients. So I think it's important to be willing to pace yourself and not think that if you have to turn down one opportunity or one client, that it's the last one you'll ever get. Take care of yourself, take care of your health and also look at what kind of support you can build for yourself, whether it's on the home front, whether it's other experts in the field, people doing a similar thing as you are to not feel like you have to do every single thing alone.

Nigel Rawlins: One of the interesting things about that is using your skills from your dance career, what things did you have to learn about running a business? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 13:59

I had to learn how to make a budget for a wedding. So reconciling what the couple was able to spend with what was possible. I had to step out and have the confidence to negotiate commissions. With the different, vendors I was working with. So also to build up my trusted pool of vendors. So knowing who I was offering to my clients was going to do a good job. I had to learn how to make a a script organize the whole day, and sell myself create a website. Certainly got help with that. So yeah, there were a lot of different skills and I basically learned a lot as I went along. Perhaps again, the skills of organizing a theater production could be applied quite directly to organizing how a wedding day should roll out from start to finish. I think also being able to understand a certain aesthetic that your clients are wanting. Of course, every couple's different. Everyone wants a different kind of wedding. So again, recognize you don't have to do this alone. There's resources on the internet for creating a business plan. Creating a lean canvas, which is another way of exploring, what am I offering? What problem am I solving? What are the other factors I need to take into account? In my case, we went to the chamber of commerce, in town and said, hey, what can you help us with? They offered certain tools, certain courses. So I would say take advantage of everything that's out there, especially free stuff or be very discerning about what are the skills I really need that are worthwhile to pay for?

Nigel Rawlins: I think that's really important, because you can easily spend money that you regret later. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 15:59

It's important to know that you will make mistakes. You can't instantly know everything. So although you may invest in something that you think I didn't get out of that what I expected, I would always turn it around and say, okay, what did I learn? Even if it's like I learned what I'm not interested or I learned what's not important for me.

Nigel Rawlins: Yeah, I think that's critical because some things are boring like I recommend to people just outsource stuff I don't do a lot of stuff anymore. I run a marketing services company and I've got people doing stuff and it's not expensive to do and it lets me do other things that I enjoy, I still have to manage the business. And I think that's one of the things you just, you didn't name it, but you had to learn to manage yourself. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 16:31

Exactly. And I think when you're starting out as an entrepreneur, I recognize this in myself. There's a fear of spending money because you're not making money yet or you're not making enough money to cover your expenses. So you're having to make some investments and sometimes you don't know which are the best ones. But I think a guideline certainly can be to really affirm what you just said is what investments can I make to ensure that I stay in good shape. That I don't overextend myself, and then not be able to operate on the on the highest level I can.

Nigel Rawlins: Yeah, no, I think mental and physical health are really critical. And clients will pick up straight away if something's wrong, especially if you're worried about money. Let's go back a little bit. What point did you become, an executive coach and could you explain actually what an executive coach is and how you become one? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 18:23

Sure. So let me answer your questions first. I and the first one was what is an executive coach? Yes, correct Okay, so an executive coach is someone who works with professionals in the professional context. We explore different kinds of issues which might be getting in the way of, enjoying work, performance at work, becoming a kind of a leader that you want to become, a really short way to say, to talk about coaching is it's finding a way to move forward by letting go of ideas that hold you back, and you can apply that in a lot of contexts, but when we talk about executive coaching, it's specifically in the work context. So What I do a lot of is provide coaching in conjunction with leadership training programs. So the participants will have a training, collective module together. And then in between modules, they get one to one sessions with a coach like me to help them put into practice or explore more deeply some of the issues that came up from for them in their learning journey. When I work with women, sometimes it has to do with also career questions trying to figure out what is the best scenario for, yeah, optimizing satisfaction. In the work context. And sometimes that's letting go of old ideas about yourself and realizing, hey, what's going on in the here and now, because as we develop as human beings, as adults, but also as professionals, our needs change. And sometimes it's a question of reassessing. What are my needs? What are my values now? And how do I make sure I get the most of that? What I value and what I need from my journey? From my role, and where I want to make trade offs as well.

Nigel Rawlins: You know what strikes me from what you've just said? That they're very lucky to meet somebody like you who can allow them to talk about these things and otherwise they'd, I'd assume, they're just working away and these are floating around in their heads and it never comes out. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 20:44

Yeah, that is the power of coaching is that it's a safe space. To talk about it's always completely confidential and for many professionals when their company provides them with coaching or sometimes they contracted them themselves, it can be really the first moment they can really talk about what are their concerns. What are the things they're struggling with? And together we look at what is the situation now? Where do you want to go? What is it that you really want to be different? And what are maybe some blind spots that you're that you need to lift the fog on? And what are the fears? What are the anxieties? What are the things that are holding you back? And in most cases, it's how true are they really? What else is possible here? What is another way to look at the situation? And in the end, it's really about changing behaviors. But before you can change behaviors, you need to change beliefs and ideas about yourself.

Nigel Rawlins: How do you get your work then? Do companies just contract you or people find you? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 22:11

It's been a combination of things. And yeah I made a website. I put myself on LinkedIn. When I first became a coach which was about 13–14 years ago now, I also had to find my way. And I think that's something that anybody who's considering becoming a coach should be realistic about. And I just want to backtrack for a moment because you've asked me how do you become a coach? Coaching is a discipline. It is a skill and in order to be a professional coach, you need to have training and there are many training programs out there. Some are more, professional than others. So in one way or another, you do need to go through some training. I would also recommend anybody who's considering becoming a coach when you're looking around at training programs, make sure the program that you are considering is already accredited by the ICF, the International Coaching Federation, because the International Coaching Federation is the gold standard for coaching. It is the clearinghouse for top level coaching. And I learned from my own mistake. I followed a very good program. It was very intensive here in the Netherlands to become a coach, but it was not accredited by the ICF for whatever reason. And that meant that my process of becoming accredited was very long and arduous. I had to translate all of my curriculum. I had to do a lot of extra work, which I succeeded at, but It really took a lot of time and effort and was quite costly. So when you go for a program, if it's ICF accredited right away it's a top program and you know that your pathway to getting your accreditation will be much smoother.

Nigel Rawlins: So would you suggest that's a good career path for some of the senior professionals that you've come across? But the thing I am also getting is that performing arts background gives you an amazing view into people. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 24:12

It does. I would say, and especially kinaesthetically I have a background as a dancer and I've done a lot of physical training, obviously, so I do tend to pick up on a lot of physical signals. A lot of, as people call it, body language, perhaps more easily than someone who doesn't have that background. I also sometimes approach things in a creative way, from just my creative background. Sometimes, yeah, just finding a very different approach to things. So I think those have been assets for me. But I want to come back to the question you asked a few minutes ago is like, how do I get clients? Cause I think this is a really nuts and bolts question. So when I first graduated from my coach training program, the most obvious thing for me at the time, it seemed was to focus on coaching dancers and career transition, because that was my background. I did have some success with that, but I also recognized that I was up against difficulty with earning a reasonable amount of money from my work because dancers typically don't have a lot of money. So I had to compromise on some quite low fees for my coaching. At the same time, I branched out into other opportunities that came my way, whether from, people I knew again, the networking piece. I think those were where a lot of my early clients came from. But at a certain moment I started realizing that there were companies out there that hired coaches and the advantage of working for a company that hires coaches for programs, let's say leadership programs or else one on one just matches you with clients is that you don't have to do all the work to get one client, the companies themselves, so they're training companies, consulting companies, they are the liaison. They're the link between yourself and clients. So one of the things I did that was really successful for me was that I just went on the internet and I just looked at a lot of different companies that were offering coaching and training. And by the way, what I didn't mention is that I also deliver intercultural training programs. That's also connected with the part of me that's American and Dutch, that's worked with a lot of different cultures. I learned a tremendous amount on the job and, then have brought my experience and then my own research to helping people to thrive in living and working in different cultures. So between the coaching and the intercultural training piece that I was doing, I did a lot of research on internet and looked at a lot of different companies who were delivering these kind of. services in professional development. And I reached out to a lot of them or a few of them. I don't remember how many, but I just reached out with an email. I tried to figure out who was. the most senior person I could reach. And I think that's also a good piece of advice. You can't always get that information, but it's good to try to figure it out. And you might just look on LinkedIn. You know who says who has the job title? H. R. in the company or, founder. I once actually, got an interview for a job process at a communication training company by somehow getting the email address of the founder who had written a book about leadership. And I had read the book and I reached out to him and said, hey, I've read your book, I really, found it fascinating, and I loved what you said about leadership and I'd like to apply for a job at your company. And he granted me an interview.

Nigel Rawlins: That's being bold. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 28:36

Yes, but baldness is really important. And that's really part of my message. Yeah. Taking a risk. Yeah. Taking a risk. And so that, that's one example, but what I did for a lot of the companies I approach is I just said, hey, I've looked at what you're doing and this is my experience and I think we would be a good fit together. And that's how I presented it. And I got a positive response from quite a few companies and that led to an interview. And I made sure I knew what the key focus was of the company, what kind of clients they worked for, what kind of programs they delivered, what kind of coaching they delivered. And so I was able to talk about myself in connection with the kind of offerings that they were delivering. It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't bullshitting, but it was also just being able to zoom in on what is important for them and where can I match my talents and skills.

Nigel Rawlins: It's a very big critical skill to know and you had it right at the beginning and it really helped you. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 29:45

It did because quite a few of those companies I now work for regularly and I'm an associate coach or I'm a senior trainer, just from making that effort.

Nigel Rawlins: I was going to say that's the ideal business that you've got several clients that you can work with and not just one and starve in the meantime. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 30:05

Exactly. So I think it's a good idea to reach out to several different companies because not every single one is going to be a I think having said that recognize that a company that you're interested in might give you a no initially, but if you're really interested in working with them and you feel you would be a good fit you can reach out again in a year or they may come back to you at some point when they have something that they feel is a good fit for your specific skills. And I think this speaks to something else that I find really important and that is to not be attached to the outcome of your efforts. If you're not afraid of rejection, And you're not afraid of a no. It's incredibly liberating.

Nigel Rawlins: You're saying a whole lot of interesting things. Because that's the issue of selling anyway. In terms of selling, it's, it is a numbers game. You might only get one out of every 20 or 30 or 40. You're going to get rejected an awful lot, but that's where you said you have to have that bit of a thick hide. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 31:11

But I think there's another piece to it, Nigel, and that is the rejection doesn't have to be a sort of a zero sum game. It's not like you get zero out of the, you get nothing from that interaction because there's something really Important that you can do even when there's a rejection and that is one simple question. What would you advise me? And by asking that question to whoever you're interacting with about your business asking either if they want to hire you or if they can give you some information or if they can give you a contact. You can always ask, Hey, what would you advise me then?

Nigel Rawlins: Or does somebody else, or do you know somebody else who may need these skills? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 32:20

Exactly. That's embedded in the question. Do you know somewhere else who would need somewhere else? I could offer these skills. Do you know someone else I could talk to? Do you think there's some piece of expertise I'm missing that I need to ramp up my knowledge of whatever? It doesn't matter what it is, if you get one piece of advice or one tip, know that you have been successful.

Nigel Rawlins: See, the interesting conversation we're having here is you're actually talking about how somebody runs a business and all the things you've got to do. But we've also been talking about what you actually sell in terms of your services. And that's one of the issues for any woman or man who wants to go into business for themselves. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 32:55

I'm in my 13th year as a coach, and over time it has grown. And the last few years it has grown a lot, I would say, but I think coming to what you just said is that you have to know what you're selling. And that's something that I also encounter working with female entrepreneurs when I'm mentoring them about their compelling message, because You need to be able to articulate what that is. And sometimes it's I was working with someone the other day, and we were working with a Lean Canvas. A Lean Canvas is a great tool to organize your thinking around your, what you're offering. And I can't remember exactly the question out of my head what it was, but one of the questions is can you say in a statement what it is that you're offering your customers? And be really concise about it. So, what is the problem that you're solving for them?

Nigel Rawlins: That's a big issue, the problem. So what you're actually saying there is the Lean Canvas gives them a framework for figuring this out. It's not like we just asked them the question, can you tell me what you do? You've actually got to do quite a bit of work to work out what that is. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 34:22

Absolutely. A Lean Canvas is a comprehensive tool. Which asks you questions like what is the problem that your customers have? What is the solution you're offering? The question is called the unique value proposition. It's a single clear and compelling message that states why you are different and worth buying.

Nigel Rawlins: And it really does help to have somebody help you do it, I think. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 35:04

Yes. And I would certainly encourage women who are on this journey to get a sounding board. You could start by you can download different models of what a lean canvas is on the internet. It's just a template, basically. And you could start to try to fill it in yourself, and it also can then reflect back to you, okay, where are the areas I'm really not clear? I don't know who is my ideal customer, or I don't know what is my cost structure or what are my different revenue streams. So you can see then where the gaps are. Then certainly engage with whether it's a trusted family member, a trusted friend, or a coach or a mentor or you seek out somebody who's in that field or knows something about business. Again, this has to do with being bold in the sense of I always say you have to share your ambitions. Otherwise, you won't get the support you need.

Nigel Rawlins: And nobody will know what you're doing. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 36:15

Nobody will know what you're doing. So don't wait for them to ask.

Nigel Rawlins: Would you say that working out of Amsterdam, there's a big market? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 36:24

I work across the globe. So I, I coach clients on every continent, thanks to the virtual possibilities that we have. And it's also very much aligned with the fact that companies are tending to be more and more global. I coach for a lot of multinational companies, but in general, companies are reaching out more globally now. There is no barriers to working with coaches in Australia, which I do. Hong Kong the States Brazil. The biggest challenge is time zones, I think.

Nigel Rawlins: Yes. So are you basically doing that via Zoom or another program? I like to coach with Zoom. That's my preferred platform. Many companies like to work with teams. Of course, there are situations where you have to accommodate that. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 37:02

A lot of companies will have security issues around using different platforms. And that's something you just need to recognize as a coach that there's just not permission to work with any other platforms. Yeah, you just you're flexible about that.

Nigel Rawlins: Would you say that, if you've got to get on stage and perform and perform, you stop thinking about the fact that you're not that confident. Whereas some of the women you're working with, do they feel that they lack confidence in their abilities? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 37:35

I will say, I hear that word a lot. I'm saying, Oh, I want to be more confident. I need to be more confident. And as a coach, the first thing I always ask is what does that mean for you? How does that look? And I think it's really important to. Investigate that because when you just leave it as this abstract idea of oh, I need to be more confident, it becomes quite weighty and in order to really create a path to confidence, it's important to understand what does that mean for you? Does that mean speaking up in meetings? Does that mean cold calling customers? Does that mean launching my website? Does that mean going to a networking event? So to really drill down to, okay, what's the context? And it can be several of those things, but to really help women understand what is the most important one to work on first? And to take it from there and really then look at what are the limiting beliefs that might be holding you back? What are situations where you did feel confident? What enabled you to feel confident in that situation? So it's very much about changing your mindset. One of the images that I use to think about that is I call it the funnel or the fountain mindset. The funnel mindset is the one where you're sucking in all kinds of negative ideas or worries about, oh, what if what if I make a mistake? What if people don't like me? What if my idea is not that original? What if people are criticizing how I look? There's all there's an endless amount of what ifs you can ask yourself and let those ideas get funneled into you that just become really paralyzing. And, not useful. So instead of the funnel to think of yourself as a fountain, and that's where you're, sharing, what it is you have to give, sharing your contributions, sharing your ideas. Seeing where things land, and it's very much an idea of flow in the sense of spaciousness water kind of flows and just goes where it will, and this idea that's how your ideas can also go. So really looking at your contributions, and what you have to give as opposed to what might happen. what might go wrong?

Nigel Rawlins: Do you think men suffer from the same issue as that? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 40:27

No, I would not say men are lacking confidence. I certainly have encountered men struggling with issues around confidence. I think more than you'd imagine, and I think in certain ways, they might feel a need to cover it up more, which can be paralyzing in its own way. So I wouldn't say it's a specifically female thing. But I'm quite interested in helping females to find their own way to overcome a lack of confidence. Another thing I'd like to share is a program that I'm currently involved in mentoring a female entrepreneur it's called momentum and there's quite a large group of female participants here in Amsterdam who are part of this program. And part of the information I got was a survey that was done among the participants and the question was, what is the biggest barrier to your entrepreneurship? And there were quite a few different statements, but the one that got the highest score was, there's a lot of negative self talk in my head.

Nigel Rawlins: So where's that come from? Do you think the negative self talk ? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 41:38

We all have our inner critics, our inner judges, next to a lot of other parts of ourselves that are really giving us positive messages and championing us. But, when it's the inner critics or the inner judges that sort of take over the microphone, that's where the negative self talk comes from. And if you want to dig deeper, it can go back to messages we got as we're growing up from our educational system from our parents or our caregivers anyone who basically wants to protect us from going off on the wrong track. But when these messages get amplified they can be really paralyzing. So to counteract the negative self talk there's simple affirmations, that we can use, which is anything from, I'm making progress with launching my business. It's okay if I make a mistake. I believe in my ideas.

Nigel Rawlins: Do you find by bringing up this topic that they all go, oh, it's normal. They don't realize that a lot of other women are facing that and they can come to terms with it ? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 42:41

I think that's the strength of having group programs for women. Because part of the journey of becoming more empowered and more confident is one that you engage with yourself, but also, in a collective group with other women so that you do feel that you're not alone and that you can share experiences and also strategies. For, setting yourself up for success. So it can be really helpful to speak with other women and be involved in a process with other women in terms of launching your business for example. So I would also encourage women, to be on the lookout for formal programs that are being offered. To help fast track female entrepreneurs or to form your own group in your community.

Nigel Rawlins: Can you tell me some more about momentum? What is that program and who participates in it? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 43:44

Yeah, so momentum is a It's a local program here in Amsterdam, and it is a program that was set up specifically to support female entrepreneurs to fast track them, to grow their business. It's a three month program, which has three phases. One is to help female entrepreneurs to identify what are their super powers. So what is their unique identity? What makes you different? What sets you apart? The second part is really focusing on, what is the problem that you're solving? They say craft a creative question and a master idea to solve it. Then the last phase is making your propositions. So refine and master your idea. Craft your compelling story. Be able to pitch it. It's a quite unique program. The last cohort, that's the cohort that I've been mentoring 17 women came together. They followed a program. I think they met once a week for several months. So just to be clear, I haven't been involved in organizing this program. I am involved as a mentor and that's part of what the participants get. Not only do they get the course time, the sort of community building around it, but they each work with a coach for a couple of sessions and a mentor for a few sessions as well. So it's quite a comprehensive program. And as I said, it is homegrown here. So I don't know. I tend to think it's not something for women who are living in other countries, but it is an example of what is possible.

Nigel Rawlins: Because of your experience as a coach and also in your business, you've got a better sense of how you can help them as an advisor, and I think that's one of the issues about advice. One is, as a coach you've got to have a an intimate knowledge of that person and an understanding, but you've also had the experience of business. So you're in a way better position to advise them, I think, in many ways, and I think you mentioned one thing earlier. It was about your kinesthetic understanding, and that is quite unique, I think. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 45:33

Thank you. I, yeah, it's, again, something that it's just innate for me, but I think in terms of even when I'm looking at, for example, One of the things I do when I work with entrepreneurs or female entrepreneurs or startup founders is looking at their website and just looking is this website really expressing the essence of what they are selling? I do a credibility check. It's hard because especially when you're starting a new business, you feel like, yes, I want to get a website up as soon as possible, but you may not really have a lot of product yet to put on the website or a lot of a track record to talk about yet. So it's even more important than ever to make sure that the website at least conveys your key message. You know what it is that my business is offering and why it is unique. And I think very often that gets glossed over with looking at what pictures can I put up? Somehow I feel like it can become quite vague because you want to be a lot of things to a lot of people.

Nigel Rawlins: I think that's the critical question. You don't want to lose anything, so you put everything there. Yeah. You just confuse people. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 47:29

So I think the is what is the. core message you have. You can talk about how what are the plans you have to grow? What's, what lies ahead for your business and what is the vibe you want to project? For example, I was mentoring, a business to help women manage their finances, teach women about money and investing. And I was picking up on a certain disconnect between a vibe of the website that looked very fashionable and, almost like a fashion magazine, which was, you could say it had a certain aesthetic, but I was asking questions around, yeah, but this is about money and money's very serious. And you're asking women to trust you with how to make decisions about money. So maybe there's just a little bit of a shift, a little bit of an adjustment. to focus on where's the expertise coming from here? So just little things like that. And I think that's the role of a mentor is to be an outside eye, because when you're starting your own business you're so focused on just trying to figure out, basically, like how to get your first clients.

Nigel Rawlins: There's a lot of noise when you first start out. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 48:55

Yes, I think that's the right word, there's a lot of noise.

Nigel Rawlins: That's a novice, whereas the expert can say, whoa, get rid of that out of the way, Lisa Ross-Marcus: 49:05

Clear out the stuff that's not relevant or not that important and really zoom in on sharpening your arguments, sharpening your questions, sharpening your offering. So it's crystal clear what you offering and what you stand for.

Nigel Rawlins: What I'm hearing again is you're able to focus on what's important and in your business, you did that with your wedding planning business and you've done it in your coaching. And you're doing it with mentoring women. You've got a very clear picture and it's very focused. It's something you don't always see out there. And yet you're an executive coach and I think you're doing the same thing with your clients in the executive coaching helping them clarify what they're doing. They should hire you. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 49:27

Thank you for that recommendation. Just to really drill down to something in terms of being focused. In how you, use your attention and how you use your energy as a female entrepreneur. There's one really key thing that helps me and it's just to ask myself, what's giving me energy? Not every single thing that you do, is a blast. There's certain tasks, certain things, aspects of your work that you may not, really love, But the thing that really guides me is when I notice how I feel, after a mentoring session or after a coaching session or when I initiate a project on the side, that's a cause I feel strongly about. When I notice the energy I get from it, I know that I'm on the right track.

Nigel Rawlins: But that's because you're very much in tune with your body, I think. That's that kinaesthetic sense that you have. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 50:53

I do believe this is something that's accessible to anybody. Yeah, just noticing yeah, how you feel. Is there a smile on your face? And sometimes you get that feedback from other people as well. Who say to you, wow, you look so happy. What have you just been doing?

Nigel Rawlins: That sounds wonderful. What sort of person would you like to work with? Or who would you like to work with? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 51:22

As I said I like to focus on women's leadership, empowerment. So I always welcome women, professional women who are curious to understand how can I advance my career? How can I step up to leadership? What are the things I need to focus on? One of the things that I developed in order to support this process is a tool called the female leadership wheel. And it's a spider wheel. I don't know if you can imagine what I mean by that. It's concentric circles and you could look at it as a pie divided into eight segments. And I developed this tool just as a way of focusing our discussions, especially for emerging female leaders. Women who are just starting to step up to a leadership role or have the ambitions to do that. And so some of the areas of focus and these segments are, negotiation skills communication skills, building my reputation, strategic networking, self care practice, mapping my ambitions, aligning with my values. In some of my coaching engagements, there's a survey where a lot of questions will be asked or statements will be made and, the coachee rates herself on a scale of one to five or one to 10. And then a kind of a shape emerges on the wheel. And then you can see where the biggest gaps in importance or strength. So if something is really important, but the strength level is quite low, that would probably be an area we would look at. But there can also be areas of alignment, which at the surface seem like, oh that's great, we don't need to look at that. But even when there's alignment, there can be certain, things that are revealing around that. For example, I was working with a female leader a few weeks ago using the wheel and aligning with her values, which was very important, that was completely connected in terms of strength and importance. But through our discussions, it came out that, although that was something that had supported her a lot, on the other hand, it sometimes made her less open to people who had other kinds of values than she did. Which had repercussions for working in a diverse environment. So when things are perfectly aligned, there can also be some interesting things to explore, or when something is actually overshooting a skill is overshooting the importance. Like maybe negotiation skills are not so important for your role, but you're really good at it. That could also raise some questions like, hey, is there another area where I might be able to really use these skills to optimize my performance or reach company objectives. So there's a lot in there to look at. Next to working with women who are leaders or emerging female leaders. I do coach men as well, on leadership issues. I sometimes do what we call life coaching occasionally. And the difference between executive coaching and life coaching is that life coaching deals more with personal issues. So that could be in relationships, it could be in health, things that are not necessarily connected to the work context. But my main focus is, as I've said, executive coaching.

Nigel Rawlins: That sounds wonderful. I think we've covered everything now. So let's tell them how they can contact you or find you. You're on LinkedIn. Under your name? Lisa Ross-Marcus: 55:01

Lisa Ross Marcus, with a little dash in between. M A R C U S.

Nigel Rawlins: And I will put this in the show notes, so they will be there. And your website. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 55:18

So my website is called In Coaching. That's the name of my one woman company, so that's www.in-coaching.nl

Nigel Rawlins: so thank you. Lisa Ross-Marcus: 55:33

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.